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The once and future Kirk

Blogabull_s_tiny by your friendly BullsBlogger on in News

Hopefully future Kirk, anyway. Hinrich looked like his old self tonight for the Bulls, and quite unlike his more prevalent alter ego, the Mopey Iowan, who we had seen most of this season.

The Bulls need for offense was dire, as before tipoff Ben Gordon joined known scratches Deng and Duhon on the bench with a wrist injury. With so much production (and Duhon) unavailable, someone had to score and Hinrich was doing it in all ways, 4-5 from three, 6-6 from the line, hitting floaters and turnaround jumpers on his way to a career high 38 points (along with 10 assists and 7 rebounds).

Before Hinrich was piling on the points in the 2nd half, the first half story was a 2nd quarter surge led by Noah, Thomas, and Thabo, allowing the tantalizing correlation of young players and winning basketball. Naturally, we didn't see Tyrus in the 2nd half and Adrian Griffin played 27 minutes, otherwise such instances wouldn't be tantalizing. Or simply make sense. 

Noah and Thabo did play plenty of minutes though (yet another game where Wallace watched the 4th from the bench, and rightfully so) with Noah especially looking good and even scoring on a few post-up opportunities.

Notice I've now mentioned both Noah and Hinrich posting up the Pacers. Shows what kind of game it was. The Pacers went small the entire game, starting Granger at the 4 and Foster at the 5. No shotblocking meant that the Bulls could drive into the lane whenever they wanted, and on offense the Pacers were sloppy (18 TOs) and disinterested outside of chucking 3-pointers. Jamaal Tinsley looked particularly uninspired, especially in contrast to the teams' first meeting in Indy when he abused Hinrich. Tonight was the other way around. 

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9-2 gets us back to .500 by the All Star break*
Kirk really needed to step up since the other two "Big 3" players were out, and he more than delivered (his four 2nd half turnovers get a pass tonight). But Kirk was who we thought he was.

Tonight reinforced who we thought and who we hoped our last three 1st round draft picks would be. So here's to wishing our "Young 3" get their playing time. Or help us God.

*Out of the games vs Phoenix, @ Golden State, @ Utah, vs New Orleans, if we can split'em and go 2-2, there is no reason why we can't be 26-26. We should not be losing to any other team before All-Star weekend.

by Orange Juice on Jan 24, 2008 12:13 AM CST   0 recs

we shouldnt
but we also shouldnt get blown out by the Grizzlies

by JSlakov on Jan 24, 2008 1:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You can't
say that this team should not be losing to any other team before the All-Star weekend. They will make a liar out of you. You should never sount on this years team for anything.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 7:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

never sount on this years team for anything
That includes your Lt. Kirk, dear Sue...

:-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Jan 24, 2008 9:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

came straight home to post that one, huh
didn't even take the time to kick the dog or beat the wife first, either.  Kudos.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 24, 2008 9:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

whoops
forgot the :-)  my bad.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 24, 2008 9:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

No shit sherlock.
I said the team and he is part of the team. He is a captain no matter how many times you write Lt.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 25, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

We should beat the Suns
They play Friday night at Cleveland and then have to hop on a flight right after the game for a Noon tipoff on Saturday morning.  They should be pretty much dead from exhaustion.

We the Friday night game against Charlotte, but the team can just get a hotel for the night to be ready for the game Sat morning.

by NBA Observer on Jan 24, 2008 8:51 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The Suns
game is on Sunday so they each have a days rest.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 8:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

blah
My Google calendar is off.  Why is it telling the game is on Saturday?

by NBA Observer on Jan 24, 2008 10:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Wallace will be late
actually it would be better if we told him the game started at 730
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 24, 2008 8:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Just Praying
this isn't a once in a lifetime thing for Kirk, I hope he continues to improve or hell, if he played as well as he did tonight (minus the turnovers), we'd be golden, and by golden I mean, bearable.

by AGBallinisaHabit on Jan 24, 2008 2:15 AM CST   0 recs

If Duhon
returns along with Hinrich in the starting line up expect him to regress.  A major factor in his good game was Thabo.

by cranscape on Jan 24, 2008 8:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Thabo and Hinrich are a very useful combination.  Combine them with solid post players and a healthy Deng on the wing, and you might have a contending team.  Duhon is a solid back-up but will probably never be starter material.  That's OK, you need a good back-up.

Gordon appears to have hit his ceiling, they're bringing him off the bench and he's a free agent after this year.  Do the math.

by Bayern Munich on Jan 24, 2008 10:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Noce rocks too
Hey, check this out

http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2008/01/nba-news-surprise-in-boston-wins-for.html

Please visit my blog @ http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/

by sivanjohn on Jan 24, 2008 2:51 AM CST   0 recs

8-19 from the field, including 2-8 from 3, 6-9 FT
Boy, they Bulls couldn't have gotten that kind or production from anyone.  I forgot to mention the amazing 7 rebounds in 44 minutes.  Noce is a decent player, but that 24, 7 line that some want to celebrate is fairly empty.  He got it by being on the floor and chucking shots for 44 minutes.  Of course, we can't measure the fact that he's the heart of the team and the other 11 players on the team will simultaneously drop dead if the Bulls trade him.

by snley on Jan 24, 2008 8:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Why all the Noc hate all the time
Noc has been our most consistent player this year, I don't get all the hate.  Sure he shot 42% for the night, but he hit buckets when they needed to hit the buckets, and it's not like he was busy taking shots away from BG or Luol, he was taking shots away from Wallace, Noah, Griffin, Thabo and the usually sub par for a guard Hinrich.....

All the Noc hate is ridiculous.  I can't wait until all the fans like those here complain him out of town and he comes back to torch us on a competitive team.

Hell, he'd really help the Grizzlies even sans Pau, he's an effort guy who while not fabulously gifted, has enough of an IQ to make many smart moves when the team needs them.

I just don't get why everyone rags on Noc all the time.  Personally, I'd keep him, and trade the more valuable Deng for someone who will be better than Deng.  Luol is a gifted player, who isn't ridiculously athletic--but more so than Noc, but has no killer instinct.  Luol's been around long enough that I don't think a Killer Instinct is just going to come to him.  Work out a trade for a real star, or a few uber talented youngs for Deng is what I say (though I would avoid Deng for gimpy TMAC and might avoid Deng and change for Pau unless Memphis included some other young commodity)....

Noc makes a defensive lapse and leaves the 3 ball open at times, but he also draws plenty of charges and often gets a block and some baskets after a stupid mistake.  It's just the fact that Noc is so energetic that we tend to notice his mistakes, while Deng falls asleep often in the 4th to little fanfare.  Deng's not our superstar folks.....he's never been a ridiculous athlete, and while Deng's good at a bit of everything, he's really not great at anything and doesn't have the killer instinct that could make him the great player everyone expected him to be this year.....

I was in the minority this offseason saying this, now more folks are noticing the same but not quite as vocal about it and by this point next year when Deng has too high a contract for what he's worth when we have a similarly skilled (though slightly less so player--Noc behind him), we'll be stuck and Deng's value will drop.

Hell, I'd love to sign Deng this offseason and work out something to trade him to the Kings for Kevin Martin....Deng's likely got higher presumed market value since Chicago's a bigger market and Deng's gotten all the buzz, but Kevin Martin's the better player.....

by majoyenrac on Jan 24, 2008 2:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Deng complaints
I've always thought Deng was a below avg NBA athelete and believe that was the knock on him in college as well.  

I agree Deng is not going to become all-star or team leader.  He has a nice game, good on D but not dominate and good on offense but lacks great handles, great offensive moves, and 3 pt shot to make him a go to guy every night

there is room on team I think for both Noc and Deng but they should not be untradable (and I don't believe Bulls would have not given up Deng if they could have got KG)

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 24, 2008 3:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Agree with you wholeheartedly
No one on these Bulls is untradable, well besides the 'fro who I doubt anyone will take with the $$ he has coming to him.

Maybe we can buy him out and have him retire.  I read today that Miami is discussing the same with Shaq, which might allow them to save their salary cap nightmare....(i think this was from hoopshype).

I think Pax doesn't want to part with Noc for Gasol (Which I can agree, since Pau is a fabulously gifted player who might need a motivator/energy scoring PF to keep him in gear)....Noah is an energy guy but too young....Noc is an Olympic Gold champion who would be well respected by Pau.

But I'd be fine parting with anyone for the right player.  I think Deng's a higher value as he's slightly better but really much much younger (which drives up his value) and I don't think and haven't thought our production would be hurt too much if we had a healthy Noc replacing Deng, especially if we part Deng for a talented superstar (Kobe).

Pax f'd up.  That whole discussion that Kobe trade talks weren't serious is a screen, the Bulls love being able to say that because we all think it's a big f-up, and the Lakers of course want to push that message because they want their fan base to remain committed to the best player in the league (and not think of him as the Benedict Arnold he portrayed all summer).  I'm sure that we didn't make the trade because Pax loved Deng too much, trading Deng, Wallace, and pieces would have been a huge steal for us, but it's over with now....oh well.

Moving forward, we need to move forward, if the Gasol idea is dead, well then Pax should come out and say it's dead and we can talk about other guys we should fight to get.  Much as I like healthy TMAC, and also likely unavailable.....

I don't want KIDD, too old, too inept as a scorer for our offensively deprived team....we don't have Vince and RJ playing alongside him (and look at their success?).  Kidd's had a fabulous career, but surely we can find someone else who's say in their late 20's for our talented but misfitted group of young 20's.....

by majoyenrac on Jan 24, 2008 3:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The Noc hate probably isn't fair
Neither is the adulation of him as more than he is, a very good role player.  I have to say, I'm more annoyed by the type of player he represents.  He is a max hustle and effort player, which can be fun to watch.  In the end, all his hustle and effort production is league average.  Yet because he looks like he plays extra hard, people want to call him ridiculous things like the heart of the team and value him much higher than his production warrants.  Unfortunately, Paxson gave him a contract that shows he was suckered too.  

The Bulls will get much better bang for their buck paying Deng 10-12.5 mil/year than they will paying Noc 8.5 mil/year.  Deng may never be all that we want him to be, but he's still a potential All-Star who will probably be relatively underpaid.    

By the way, Noc has not been the Bulls most consistent player this year, not that that really matters.  Joe Smith has probably had the most non-terrible games this season, if you want to label that as consistency.  Noc has thrown his fair share of absolute stinkers as well as his fair share of good games.

by snley on Jan 24, 2008 4:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

meh
I'd rather be paying for production than paying for potential.

by NBA Observer on Jan 24, 2008 4:48 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Um, I think Deng is already outproducing Noc
Deng 2007-08 PER: 17.67
Nocioni 2007-08 PER: 16.20

Granted, Nocioni has also carried the burden of being the heart of our team.  Not sure how to compares that to Deng's season long battle w/ injuries.

by snley on Jan 24, 2008 5:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

But
is that difference worth $5M more per year for 6 more years?  No it isn't.  Noc's stats also have been a bit more negatively impacted by Skiles' early mix of minutes, Noc would play 5 minutes and sit or play 2 minutes, then play 35 minutes, then play 8 minutes.....

Deng hasn't had that luxury.

Plus PER is a skewed formula in my mind (something you can tell was thought up by a math guy--which I am as well).  I buy a lot of stuff that can't always be measured as an important piece as well (Such as being confident enough to try to make plays in game changing situations--and often succeeding, regardless of how poor perhaps the first 15-20 minutes of play you had), deflections, charges, etc....stuff that Hollinger doesn't always grab from his too stat heavy statistic that ESPN has blabbed about ad nauseum so that many now think it's a be-all end all statistic.

Fact is Deng's good, Noc is good, less than 1.5 point PER difference isn't to me worth $5M more a year on a team striving to get that superstar player...I'd rather trade that borderline maybe eventual if everything goes right when it goes right depending on the players around him and how much he fills a leadership role guy like Deng.  Deng's got the highest value (a bit too high for what I feel his eventual max production will be) so let's use his value as a bargaining chip to get a superstar (or combo of solid young players maybe from the Atlanta PF spots and picks for Deng and some of our also-rans (Khryapa, Griffin--and his locker room calming rep)....

by majoyenrac on Jan 24, 2008 6:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

PER helps Noc
because it doesn't account for his abysmal defense. And the cause of a career of team-hurting (in the truest sense, anyway)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 24, 2008 6:57 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Only team hurting?
No gold medal-winning team helping anywhere in his background?

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 7:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus with offense
I won't disagree that Noc roams on D.  He does.  He also makes plays though.

But it is still opposing guards that have created the most problems for us on defense.

by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2008 8:53 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Agree to disagree then
because while Noc has lapses with outside shooters, he'll also draw lots of charges and get in guys faces (making them less effective at times too).

Again I think the ire is because of the wide open 3's when Noc does the double team at the paint, and the fact that Noc looks crazy and super energetic that we tend to notice his faults more.

He's no superstar, but he's a worthy star in my book, and is hardly this team's biggest problem, in fact I'd say he (and Joe Smith) have been the most consistent all year.  Deng's been good, but has games where he gets numbers but doesn't play hard when the game matters most (Something PER doesn't measure, and he seemed a bit lost in th ehype the first month of the season if not more....I'm still waiting for Superstar Deng I guess--I like Deng, but I also don't think and have never thought he's as good as his hype).  

Noc can have a crappy game, but come in in crunch time moments and make the important plays we need to get some wins.....that's far more important than PER of a guy like Deng who'll get the baskets early when they're easier, and then do little when they're harder (Even though he has the talent to do more when it's harder, he doesn't have that psyche).

I'm afraid we'll ahve to agree to disagree.  It's your blog though, so feel free to disagree(I like the blog though :)).

by majoyenrac on Jan 25, 2008 10:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That small difference in PER says alot.
Deng and Nocioni are separated by 1.5 in PER while the 22 year old Deng is having a disappointing season and the 28 year old Nocioni is probably having the best season of his career.  Granted, there are things that PER doesn't cover, like Nocioni's tendency to leave his man open outside for a half assed double team or Deng's tendency to disappear during 4th quarters.  

Any way you put it, Nocioni is clearly the lesser player.  When you remove the smoke and mirrors of his grit and hustle, you can see he is a far lesser player.  Deng will probably never be a superstar.  He is, though, much more likely to earn the value of his next contract than Nocioni is to earn the value of his current contract.  Would I be willing to see Deng go for an actual superstar?  Absolutely, bring on the Kobe trade rumors again.  Do I think Paxson should be shopping Deng?  Fuck no.  

 

by snley on Jan 25, 2008 12:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I like Deng
Ambassador to the game, great talent, not a superstar, not uber-atheletic but athletic enough, a smart player, knows his strengths, doesn't make many mistakes, is decent and consistent.

I'm not saying Noc is better than Deng, what I am saying is that Deng's value is far greater than Noc right now and the differences between the two aren't as night and day as it would be to compare say a Dwyane Wade to a Ricky Davis.....

It's more like comparing a Mike Miller and Ben Gordon (Mike's a taller player who can get boards and is a consistent scorer, whereas BG's a flashier player who can score a lot more points on good days than Miller (and do so more often) but can also wallow with some bad nights for several games on end).  Gordon's likely got far higher trade value, but I'm not quite sold that he's the all out better player--though I as a fan want to think he is and respect BG more--even though I keep indicating trading BG, I think much of that has to do with our need for height.

by majoyenrac on Jan 25, 2008 10:45 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

A tough team to predict
This always happens after a win: the Bulls feebly convince us they can close out games and show [weak] signs that they can be the team we all hoped they'd be, and then along comes the next game where the shots aren't falling, we can't score more than 12 points a quarter, and we're blown out by a team that may or may not be above .500.

Before Memphis, I had personal hopes of the Bulls going 5-1 to close out the month of January, with the probable loss being Phoenix. Naturally, the Bulls were pounded by [sigh] Memphis. So much for predicting how to get a run going.

If this team struggles to win back-to-back games, how in the hell are they supposed to turn this season around? A win streak? A serious, competent run? Hah! I'll believe it when I see it.

On another note, very delightful to see Kirk and Noah post up good numbers, as well as Thabo in the lineup and even Tyrus getting some minutes. After a 38-point scorcher, I wonder if having Thabo bring up the ball on offense with Kirk at the 2 would be a worthy experiment.

by ForWhomTheBullTolls on Jan 24, 2008 3:15 AM CST   0 recs

One thing I'd like to check
is the production of Kirk when paired with Thabo - in other words, how much does playing with a bigger guard help his game?  Was this the second game they started together?

by Freethefro on Jan 24, 2008 7:21 AM CST   0 recs

It'll be easier to figure out
when 82games updates their player pairs data again.  But based on last year, Kirk was much better when paired with Thabo over Duhon, and Thao was a ton better playing with Kirk than with Duhon.  Here's a diary that dealt with last year's numbers.  I've wanted to updte it with this year's numbers, but as of 1/07/08 Kirk and Thabo had only played 75 min together.  It's just not a big enough sample size so far.  I'll figure it out when 82games updates again.

http://blogabull.com/story/2007/10/18/152332/61

by Scotter on Jan 24, 2008 9:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nice work there
looking forward to the new, and hopefully permanent, edition.

by Freethefro on Jan 24, 2008 4:10 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Of course
Hinrich finally looks (on paper and in the box score) like the old scrappy Kirk and it comes on a day when I couldn't see the game....

Maybe he read all my ragging on him accross the net (here and sportsline)--I like to think I make a difference--but yeah, it's good to see him score 20, let alone 38 and 10 and 6 or 8 boards or whatever it was.  20 points these days is a shocker for Kirk, so 38 was thrilling.

I hope it keeps up as I've been a big Hinrich fan (he was the glue guy for our team and the only unmovable piece until this year at least in my book), and I hope he gets back.

See what 1 game can do, it can give me hope.

I like the fact that Thabo and Noah seem to be contributing, hopefully I can see their next game (and hopefully it's not going to end up like the Memphis game).

by majoyenrac on Jan 24, 2008 7:43 AM CST   0 recs

A win is a win.
I don't care who is on the floor or for how many minutes as long as they win.

Very happy that Kirk had a good game and Noah is just playing kick ass ball right now.

I'm so glad Skiles is gone because we would never have had the chance to see what Thabo is doing for this team now. With Duhon still out I'm anxious to see how Thabo and Kirk play the next few games. Nice to see 52 points from them last night.

Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 7:55 AM CST   0 recs

excuse me
if I don't get all giddy about KH's 38-point outburst...but like it was mentioned in the game thread, he pretty much had no choice...with 3 other players out (all starters in some respect) and them playing against a wack team, I would've been surprised if he DIDN'T get over 25.

Let's see how he plays against Charlotte and Phoenix...I know he probably won't get 38/10/7 again...but can he at least get somewhere close to 20-25/7/4?

Hopefully he won't have to because hopefully Ben will be back...

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 24, 2008 8:09 AM CST   0 recs

Awww, did your
neighbors dog shit on your morning paper?
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 8:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

lol
nah, but it did snow about 3-4 inches...maybe that's why i'm grumpy today

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 24, 2008 8:23 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I hear ya.
It's -15 here today. I wish whoever pissed mother nature off would apologize.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 8:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

sorry about that...
I called her fat after I asked her how old she was...my bad.

by Lt.Dan on Jan 24, 2008 11:57 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Dude
apologize already.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 1:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

no...
not until she apologizes for kicking my dog.

by Lt.Dan on Jan 24, 2008 4:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Dear Paxson, Dear Kerr
The Suns can't rebound.  They shoot 56% from the field, 100% from the line, and 37% from 3pt territory and lose by 10 TO THE TIMBERWOLVES.

Ben Wallace.   BEN Wallace.  BEN WALLACE.

Do it PaxKerr.  Wallace for Stoudemire.  Suns are running out of time.  So it Ben Wallace's trade value.

by NBA Observer on Jan 24, 2008 8:48 AM CST   0 recs

Why stop there?
Think big and propose Wallace for Stoudemire and Nash, then fall back to Marion and Nash.

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 9:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

He also mentioned
that Joe Smith, BG and Viktor were late also.
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 9:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I know somebody out there
is going to accuse me of singling out Wallace, so let me get this out of the way now.  I plead guilty as charged.

Yes others were late, too.  Maybe that's why Viktor didn't get a garbage time minute?  Gordon wasn't going to play anyway.  Joe Smith--I'm beginning to wonder about, though.  

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 9:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

vet leadership
I like that Boylan was even asked if the fine would be waived. As if whoever asked was saying "well, you let them vote on suspensions, so why not?"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 24, 2008 9:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Please Pax
get rid of the HasBen Wallace, I will take Rad's bad contract, just get rid of him!!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 24, 2008 9:38 AM CST   0 recs

If we can't get rid of BW
I don't mind him COMING OFF THE BENCH.

Does Boylan have the cojones to start the clearly superior player Noah over Wallace?

If he doesn't, then he should be fired.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 24, 2008 10:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

that will be the day
I would love to see BW come off the bench, Boylan will never do it though.  He is still trying to find a way to Adrain minutes!!  I wouldn't be surprised when Duhon comes back that he is inserted in the starting lineup for Thabo
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jan 24, 2008 10:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

So true. Boylan can't, or won't
bench Wallace even though, as SBulls showed, Wallace is hurting the team more than any other player. I guess I don't really understand why the Bulls are willing to lose a whole season to keep Wallace happy. Of course, if he's not traded or benched, Wallace will surely destroy our chances next year as well.
Maybe the Bulls are trying to attract all the old washed up players in the league to appeal to the older, richer fanbase who can afford the higher ticket prices. Damn Reinsdorf is a frickin' genius.

by philosoball on Jan 24, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Thabo has shown
he deserves to stay in the starting lineup now let's see if the coaches are as smart as we are. :-)
Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 24, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Can you thnk
Of the last time a high profile/high priced player like Wallace was benched in favor of a rookie?

I sure can't

by Option27 on Jan 24, 2008 10:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Probably a combination of both
'Star-bury' has not only been a cancer but his play has been awful.

by RogersPark Kris on Jan 24, 2008 10:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

And he just had season-ending surgury.
Any nagging old problems Big Ben needs to have cleared up before getting transferred to his new team?

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 10:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think
It's more cause of his attitude.

I really wish Ben needed to have season ending surgery though

by Option27 on Jan 24, 2008 10:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

does he really count?
It's the Knicks...in all their Isaiah "glory".

by Lt.Dan on Jan 24, 2008 11:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

So, Boylan dislikes Tyrus' play, right?
It's pretty much official now. I mean, there's no other rational explanation for it. So what if Indiana had their small-ball lineup in during the fourth. The Bulls made the run in the 2nd against Diener, Daniels, Diogu, Dunleavy and Williams w/ Granger replacing Williams. With Foster in there instead of Diogu (the other positions essentially being the same), they're actually a bigger team.

So let's recap:

Bulls make run against "super small" lineup w/ Noah, Thomas, Nocioni, Griffin and Thabo and then Kirk coming in for Thabo.

In the fourth, Pacers have a bigger lineup, but Thomas gets ousted because the Bulls want to play smaller.

Got it.

Good thing Thomas wasn't in there instead of Griffin, they might have won by more!!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 24, 2008 10:40 AM CST   0 recs

Looking bad for Tyrus
If he can't get more than 11 minutes of burn against the Pacers without Jermaine O'neal and Troy Murphy, when will any matchup dictate giving him more minutes?

Tyrus can't win with the current staff.  He was effective last night.

by NBA Observer on Jan 24, 2008 10:45 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

why don't you ask boylan
he played TT for 9 minutes in the first half, so he can't hate him that much.  I thought he should have played TT in second half, too, but boylan went with the extra ball handler.  TT played ok in the first half, but it wasn't like he set the world on fire.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 24, 2008 10:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Actually, what I think Boylan
was responding to in the second half was Wallace's poor post play.  Thabo and Kirk kept giving the ball to Wallace in the post, because he was able to get great position.  But once he got the ball he didn't do anything with it.  Stacy mentioned this a couple of times.  

When Boylan took Wallace out, he actually replaced him in the post with Griff...and the truth is, A-Drain completely had his way with the Pacer's tiny interior defense.

We may have wanted to see Tyrus (and Tyrus probably would have done a great job, after all, he'd just had a great 2nd quarter), but Griff did what Boylan wanted him to; the Bulls rebuilt their lead and went on to coast to victory.

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 10:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It may have looked like he was having his
way.  But Griff having his way produces 2 for 8 from the field and 1 for 3 from the line for a total of 5 points in 27 min.  Wallace's offense was awful, but his defensive rebounding in the 2nd half was just as awful.  Putting in the player that grabbed 4 boards in 11 min might just have been a good idea.  Griff played just well enough to cover Boylan's rear end.  

by Scotter on Jan 24, 2008 11:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty sure that 1-6
of his 2-8 came in the first half.

Hey, I was as pissed off as anyone to see him come in instead of Tyrus.  I'm just offering what I think was Boylan's intention.

by alec on Jan 24, 2008 11:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs