Make the Pistons look old too

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 3, 2007 10:49 PM CDT in News

As we all saw in the series against the Heat, the Bulls can out-run an older team, both in transition and through ball-movement in the half-court. The Pistons aren't nearly as decrepit as the Heat, but the Bulls still have that advantage in this series. And while the Bulls can't make the Pistons any older, they can get younger, and that means more Tyrus Thomas, who's had some of his best games against the Pistons.

Time for Skiles-a-plenty:

Frankly, Tyrus has to be more reliable. It's that simple. I know everybody wants to see him go out and dunk the ball and block a shot. But we have a team game, and every person is predicated on what the other people are doing, much like Detroit. We have to know that everybody we put on the floor knows exactly what we're supposed to be doing, exactly where they're supposed to be and exactly what's going on. That's the long answer. The short answer is: Yes, I can see him being more of a factor in this series, and we have this period of time to get him ready for that...He's been pretty good around the rim against them. They've got a lot of length, a great shot-blocking team, and he's been able to slide behind them on occasion. He's caught some lob-and-dunks. He's been able to operate a little against them, and against some other teams he hasn't. They know that, too, at this point. It's been a team he's been OK against.

Well excuse me for blindly liking the guy who blocks and dunks. You can take that 'know where everybody is' stuff, I want the Pistons to get a front row seat to Tyrus Thomas Teabaggin' Theater! (this is why I'm not a coach)

Sam Smith saw something I didn't during the Heat series, but he had a press pass, no fair:

It seemed obvious in Game 3 that he was scared to death. Every time he touched the ball he couldn't get rid of it fast enough. He is a kid, after all, and I think the atmosphere and pressure was way too much for him. I thought Skiles handled it beautifully. He didn't say much, but didn't put him back in so as not to embarrass him. Sefolosha could play because he's played pro ball before in Europe. I don't expect to see Thomas much on the road in the playoffs, but he feeds off the crowd and I think he'll play in the home playoff games and more against Detroit because their big guys are slow and he can sneak in behind the zone on them and dunk.

Well that's two mentions of Tyrus' ability to get behind the Pistons' defense, but another way Thomas can help is through offensive rebounding, a weak link in the Pistons defense (25th in the league). Beyond that, it's also the idea of putting pressure on the Detroit frontcourt. When guys can't handle Tyrus athletically (and besides what may have happened in the Heat series, Tyrus isn't afraid to try and create a shot) he does draw fouls, and can generally create havoc on both ends.

I was advocating Tyrus over Noc before the Heat series too, but I can see why Skiles didn't play him much in the Heat series: because he didn't have to. When Thomas came out there and didn't perform Skiles could go back to Nocioni as the backup big and know that he still had the overall advantage in athleticism and speed. But that's because of just how slow and old the Heat were.

I believe against the Pistons, Tyrus Thomas won't be as much of a luxury as a need. The Pistons are much taller in their frontcourt rotation and especially considering that Noc may be hobbled, Skiles should be more ready to take on the risk of playing Tyrus to exacerbate their team strengths. I don't think the Bulls can out-grit the Pistons, that's playing into their style. Against Webber and Wallace (and McDyess, Dale Davis, and the actual athlete of the group Jason Maxiell) the Bulls can counteract by having a guy who can jump over their heads, while hoping he figures out the rest along the way.

0 recs | Comment 51 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Hat tip to 1958chitown's diary

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/5/3/143027/1847

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 3, 2007 10:51 PM CDT 0 recs

You heard it here first

I bet Dallas makes an effort to steal Noc from us this offseason. They were missing exactly the kind of enforcer that Noc is--someone who hits shots when the entire team is cold, pisses off the other team, and takes charges. They were like the tin man tonight--everything was there but the heart.

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 4, 2007 1:07 AM CDT 0 recs

There's a big difference

between 'enforcer' and 'flopper'. I think it's easier to point fingers at Avery Johnson's curious micromanagement of an unprepared team than to get the heartometer out. Andres "All-Heart" Nocioni is the guy skipping international competition this summer. I don't think his heart is in it.

by Paxson Jackson on May 4, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

OK...

maybe "heart" was the wrong word--I hate it when people use it to describe intangibles, which is a stupid concept. I was stressing more the flopping/taking charges, and shooting when everyone else clamps up (e.g. Dirk, 90% of the time it seems).

He always seems to hit a deadly shot when we need him to. And you can lament the fact that he flops, since that's not supposed to be a part of the game. But, when the other team is on a roll, they get more careless driving to the basket and seem to cast those fouls on themselves.

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 4, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'd add to that...

...your original point was that Dallas might be a team that might bid for Nocioni. Just because PaxJax doesn't believe in his intangibles doesn't mean that a team or two won't. Maybe he's read things that the Dallas brain-trust doesn't like guys who flop or are gritty (maybe that's why they don't have any), but I haven't.

If they like those things, grit/heart/flopping, and feel they're missing them and that Nocioni would somehow help the team with them, then they could very well go after Noc, even if others wouldn't.

by tyger1147 on May 4, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

Dallas is exactly the team we want to bid for Noc

all they can bid is the mle, which is a reasonable amount for the Bulls to match. They might want to try some kind of sign and trade, but they'd have to get Noc to explicitly ask the Bulls not to match if Dallas wanted to sign him outright.

by bullshooter on May 4, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's good news

I didn't really know Dallas' cap situation.

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 4, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

post wasn't meant to be the referrendum on Noc

but it always turns out that way....

I think a team that will 'overpay' (i.e. over the MLE) for Nocioni will be a younger team that believes they need a guy like Noc to provide all that good stuff he provides. I think the good teams out there see Noc as the Bulls likely do and that's as bench player.

Dallas had an enforcer sitting on the Bench all series, Dampier. They had a heart/flop/grit guy too, Devean George (although he's tremendously less talented than Noc)...in fact I remember reading that one of Dallas' failings in the offseason was stocking up on 'heart' d-first guys like George and Greg Buckner (and Croshere, I guess) and not getting more playmakers off the bench.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, sorry for instigating this tangent...

If there's any good to come of it, at least it's passing the time.

Will 7pm Saturday never come?

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 4, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm not lamenting

flops, and I'm not some Bob Costas freakazoid who challenges the purity of the sport. I don't care about that, but I do care that Nocioni's only strongpoint on defense is flopping. The Bulls get the ball, but they can't fast break off of a flop. The 'enforcer' role is dead in the NBA, and Nocioni doesn't knock the opposition down nearly as much as his own teammates.

As far as hitting "a deadly shot when we need him to" I'd argue that any make is something Nocioni needs to do, because he offers little production in other areas of the game. And really, you want every shot to go in regardless of when the Bulls 'need' it or not.

Dallas is just fine on the flopping front.

by Paxson Jackson on May 4, 2007 11:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

Its always been interesting to me

how everyone except Paxjax (and Matt to some extent) thinks Noc is a quality player who contributes alot when he's on the court, whether he is scoring important baskets, hitting clutch free throws, fighting for a loose ball, or yes, taking a charge. Even the rest of the Bulls comment on how tough Noc is, how he gets under guys' skin, how hard he plays. They understand that a player's mentality and effort level can be infectious.

And yet, there's Pax, unable to resist taking ridiculous potshots at the guy, like saying he'd better make his shots because he contributes little else, as if he's a poor man's Kapono or something. What a bunch of nonsense.

by preverbal on May 4, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

everyone has

their achilles heal.

by bullshooter on May 4, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

I blame the long break between series

This isn't meant to get into a "why some people think Noc isn't very good"

I'll say more over the summer when it matters. But for the cliffs notes: I agree that he's only useful if he's hitting threes, which he is, and that's great. He's also good off the bench because because outside of Gordon he's one of the few who looks to create his own shots (sometimes to a fault). A nice option at the 4 because he can space the floor. If he's not hitting his shots he's not exactly spacing things and therefore isn't of much use on a team that's trying to achieve supremacy in the conference.

As far as the rest: taking charges is not a good defensive play if you're the powerforward, and I don't like the fate of the defense falling into the referee's hands on a block/charge call. I take little stock in 'clutch' free throws. And the truth is Nocioni hustles but he's actually bad at 'the little things'. Doesn't rotate quickly on defense, doesn't box out, and often makes dumb decisions with the ball.

He's a limited player who's a good bench option on this squad. He does some things well and other things not so well, I don't see how that's such a stinging criticism.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

It appears hinrich will play more of a role...

I should get some sleep before i start bantering...heres a nice link...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/bulls/2007-05-03-hinrich-defense_N.htm

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on May 4, 2007 4:13 AM CDT 0 recs

I just want the games to start

Then we'll see what's up.

Man, this is a long, long time to wait.

by KT on May 4, 2007 6:50 AM CDT 0 recs

You forgot to mention

Tyrus Thomas turned Rip Hamilton into a cane-waving grumpy old guy!

by Paxson Jackson on May 4, 2007 8:37 AM CDT 0 recs

That's pretty much...

...my image of Hamilton most of the time.

Deng 4 MVP, 2008!

by corey williams corey benjamin on May 4, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

I've never

seen rip so frustrated as when he was tied with TT. TT is so quick tall and fast- constantly bugging Rip.

by rhetly on May 4, 2007 3:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

Tyrus

OK, so he was terrified - I suppose part of the problem was that the Bulls built their lead very late in both road games. Too bad they couldn't just blow the Heat out from the start - but I suppose that's a factor of Shaq not gassing at the start.

But the best thing to do if he's nervous is to try to find him some more minutes. Kind of like the first time you go snorkeling (odd reference, I know, but bear with me). You put your face in the water and you're breathing and it's crazy because one of the few rules you inherently KNOW in life is that you can't breathe with your face in the water. Yet there you are, doing it. And you get kind of nervous and you start to hyperventilate a bit - partly because of the anxiety and partly just because you can and you want to make sure you still can. But after five minutes or so, you get acclimated to what you're doing and you're breathing easy, diving down to get a closer look and swimming through fish poop. I realize they don't want to shake the kid's confidence, but getting benched could have the same effect. That makes me wish the first two games were at home for this series. We're going to need production from Tyrus to win this series. I hope Skiles finds a way to give him more than two minutes to get adjusted.

Deng 4 MVP, 2008!

by corey williams corey benjamin on May 4, 2007 9:49 AM CDT 0 recs

I just hope they win the games.

by bullshooter on May 4, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up 0 recs

Nocioni

Apparently He predicted the Bulls will beat the pistons in 7 in Detroit...now we have to back that up. No doubts from me..we owned Detroit this year. Let them try to "turn it on" like the Heat tried to do. LOL

F*ck the Heat!!

by BullShitzer on May 4, 2007 12:03 PM CDT 0 recs

I'm glad this is the first mention here

of Noc's comments, i.e. the weakest trash talk in playoff history. If Detroit fans get agitated over that they're silly.

Good point on how similar comments riled up the Heat though, that stuff they said is even more ridiculous now seeing how it manifested (or didn't) on the court.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

Tyrus / Noc

As a fan I would love to see Ty play more - he brings energy, spectacular dunking ability, offensive rebounding etc as Matt pointed out. But if I were coaching the team, I'm not sure I would have him out there for more than 10 minutes a game. I feel that his offensive game is still very underdeveloped and though he has tremendous upside, some times he still looks like a kid in a man's game. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge TT fan, and he needs more minutes (48 seconds is ridiculous) but he is still a WIP. On the other hand Noce plays like a seasoned pro - he plays to win (rather than impress), he is gutsy, tough and relentless. I can see why Skiles depends on him more.

I know everyone on this site hates Noce (too many turnovers etc), and I expect to see some predictably snarky remarks from Pax Jax, but there is a reason he is a gold medal winner and why he will be coveted by other teams in the offseason.

by bullsfaninbigapple on May 4, 2007 12:44 PM CDT 0 recs

I agree

TT is a young boy still learning the game. I think this off season will be big for him working out and working on a jumper. I don't get why the people have to divide between Noc and TT. I like them both and think they both bring different skills to the team.

by SRQman on May 4, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't really

care who plays more TT or Noch. I just want the Bulls to kick some Piston ass. This is way too long between games.

My team has no "super star". It has players who have desire, determination and heart making them a "super team". GO BULLS!!!

by sue369 on May 4, 2007 2:10 PM CDT 0 recs

Agree completely.

This is not a time for stife or division within the Bulls community. Now is the time for the fanbase to rise up and smite the hated Pistons. I want to prove that the UC can be just as loud and raucous as the Oracle Arena in Oakland.

I am fired up about tomorrow and this entire series.

Reading all of the Chicago and Detroit local press coverage really has me riled up.

I don't want this playoff run to end. I'll puke bile if I have to watch Detroit and Cleveland in the ECF.

(And will they ever tell us when games three and four are going to be!?!)

by 1958ChiTown on May 4, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

Amen to that!

Do the proverbial "powers that be" understand that some of us are scheduling our lives around potential home playoff games? I love how people in NYC who aren't even going to these games are the ones in control. Why is it so hard for them to just spit out a Sat/Mon/Thur/Sun/Tues/Fri/Sun at us?

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on May 4, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

I couldn't have said it better.

As I mentioned last night, I am staving off business and family obligations until the dates are set. No way I am missing a playoff game against the Pistons.

by 1958ChiTown on May 4, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

the people who go to the games don't matter

compared to those who watch it on TV. It's alllll about setting up a maxed-out TV schedule.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

Do teams that make the playoffs...

receive more TV revenue than non-playoff teams?

Or do all league teams share TV revenue equally?

Does anyone know how the NBA TV contracts are set up?

(BTW, in the Skiles interview Matt posted, Skiles adresses the TV scheduling issue very briefly.)

by 1958ChiTown on May 4, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think the contract is with the whole league

So then the networks tell the NBA how to make the schedule and the NBA happily obliges.

but that's just a guess.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2007 3:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

Cleveland in the ECF?

Not likely. Count on the Nets in 6.

-- Pat Riley is about to fail the "ultimate, ultimate, ultimate test".

by Jimslam on May 5, 2007 12:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

The Cavernous UC

Sorry, but that place can only be loud with concerted efforts. It can't sustain a medium noise level on murmurings and applause like some of the smaller venues.

It will be deathly quiet during periods when the bulls aren't scoring, some polite applause after most baskets, and some big "oohs and ahhs" during big plays.

Only 12-25 more years til we can build a new stadium!

Dalibor and Dragan!
Like Pizza? Me too.

by FAQ on May 5, 2007 8:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

Damn, that's a little unfair.

I agree it isn't the Stadium, but we have gotten plenty loud this season. The place was off the hook for the Phoenix game. It was raucous for the first round playoff games against Miami. Downright deafening at times (e.g. when Tyrus had his "blunk" sequence).

by 1958ChiTown on May 5, 2007 9:00 AM CDT up 0 recs

Coaching

Both really good teams. How Skiles coaches, his decisions and attitude, is going to be an important intangible. Not like it ever isnt in a game, but the matchups are so strategic between Pists-Bulls, its about choices.

I might have to watch the first game alone, because I'm going to seem like an unstable psycho for about 3 hours.

by rhetly on May 4, 2007 3:56 PM CDT 0 recs

The series

Don't be surprised if Detroit goes down 0-2 in its home games. They're a very cocky team. Also, don't be surprised if they win in 7. You hear it here first.

by vlad001 on May 4, 2007 11:39 PM CDT 0 recs

Charlie Rosen

Charlie Rosen really seems to be giving the edge to the Pistons in every individual match-up.

Read the story on Foxsports

Is Deng's defense really much worse than Prince's offense?

-- Pat Riley just failed the "ultimate, ultimate, ultimate test".

by Jimslam on May 5, 2007 12:34 AM CDT 0 recs

Is Charlie Rosen relevant anymore?

by Paxson Jackson on May 5, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

Like I always say...

Don't forget who the real experts are.

by Paxson Jackson on May 5, 2007 9:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

Interesting

Quite impressive that most of them picked the Bulls in Rd 1. However none of them picked GS against Dallas, unlike our Sam Smith.

by bullsfaninbigapple on May 5, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hell

most of the Tribune and Sun Times people picked the Pistons. If I was one of the Bulls and I read that I would be pissed.

My team has no "super star". It has players who have desire, determination and heart making them a "super team". GO BULLS!!!

by sue369 on May 5, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

I would

love to see TT come out today and be the difference maker in good way today.

My team has no "super star". It has players who have desire, determination and heart making them a "super team". GO BULLS!!!

by sue369 on May 5, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

Another question we should be

asking is if Prince's defense really that better than Deng's offense?

Bulls Will Eat You For Breakfast

by Ronald on May 5, 2007 4:32 AM CDT 0 recs

by Ronald on May 5, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up 0 recs

Uh, it's a blog, these are comments.

And that's the jerkiest "apology accepted" I've ever read. I'll be sure to read your blog the next time I'm in desperate need of your expert execution of sarcasm.

by Paxson Jackson on May 5, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up 0 recs