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Frontcourt on the frontburner (updated)

UPDATE: Noooo! ::sobs::

The official word on Noc is that he's out 7-10 days, which is not as bad of an absence as it could've been. I mentioned yesterday that this could hurt his trade value, but unlike My Man Sam(tm) I doubt it specifically effects negotiations with Memphis. If the Grizzlies are dealing Gasol they likely don't care if Noc sits out for a few weeks, it'd only hurt their draft position (a clear directive if they do trade Gasol). He may be little more than an expiring contract to them.

On the court, Noc's unavailability led to more awkward lineup combinations. Malik Allen and Adrian Griffin were poison out there, Allen's contribution a -11 in 5 minutes, and A-Drain a -8 in 8 minutes. I'll give Skiles credit in that he didn't go back to either in the second half, instead giving some of those minutes to Khryapa and Sefolosha, who both played well. But not too much credit as Duhon logged 27 minutes. And this was a game where he shot well (and attacked the basket), but that doesn't mean I want him out there. Actually, it wasn't just Duhon who was going to the basket, as the team racked up 47 FTAs, led by Deng (15) and Hinrich (11).

[Quick aside on Adrian Griffin: It's unbelievable how bad he's looked this season. His turnover ratio is a comically bad (we're talking Tyson Chandler territory) 20.0! That's especially terrible for a player that's supposed to be in there to 'be a soothing presence' or 'ease up his teammates' or whatever cliche is said when he's on the floor. With Noc out they do need him as 5-10 minute backup SF, but hopefully he gets back to his career norms of merely near-turnover-free offensive impotence. Luckily there's not much of a sample size with this year's minutes, and his career turnover ratio is half what it is currently]

But while Khryapa found his way to the court, it was yet another noticeable DNP for Tyrus Thomas, someone you'd think would be the guy who'd gain minutes with someone at his position out. It's clear that he's in the doghouse (or as Skiles would likely say, 'not earning time in practice'), and/or held out for an imminent trade. Maybe his recent comments about the All-Star game will endear himself to Skiles, who's "expressed his dislike for the game in the past". (For talk of Tyrus' dunk contest participation, comments, and ensuing fine, please keep it to this earlier thread. I have as much enthusiasm talking about it as apparently Tyrus does in participating.) If Tyrus does stick around beyond the deadline, I won't be surprised if he's solidly in the rotation in time for the playoffs, if only because Skiles' rotations change wildly throughout the season. And if that's the case I can't wait to see the creaky-kneed Pistons frontcourt trying to handle him. Yes that was an unnecessary shot at the Pistons....but I'm just simmering until the 25th.

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never an unnecessary shot
at 'that' team

by milesgmsu on Feb 6, 2007 10:37 PM CST   0 recs

Forget about Tyrus; is Thabo in the doghouse?
As much as Tyrus turns the ball over, I can understand why he's not playing.  What is Thabo doing wrong, though?  I don't have a problem with playing Duhon as long as he's willing to shoot when he's open (which he has on this road trip), but he and Hinrich are much too small to be guarding big 2's consistently.  If Skiles insists on going with three guards a lot, at least going with Thabo over Duhon gives us more size.  Thabo's obviously not much of a shooter yet, but he rarely forces anything offensively.  At the very least, he should be playing ahead of Adrian Griffin.

by Big D on Feb 7, 2007 6:23 AM CST   0 recs

Crucial Road Trip = Short Rotation
Perhaps Skiles senses the urgency of coming out of this road trip with a winning record and that's why he's kept the rookies on the bench.  He clearly doesn't trust them. That, along with no Noc's foot,  is why we're seeing Allen, Victor, Duhon, & Griffin on the court.

And WOW did  Sam Smith go off on Tyrus this morning!

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Feb 7, 2007 8:04 AM CST   0 recs

I'm conflicted on that
because I sortof understood that it was crucial to get the winnable games at home and understood why Skiles went to 'his guys' (or just 'his guy').

But if the same works for the tough road games, you can say that any game is 'crucial'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 10:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

All games are "Crucial" to a point
But I think a lot of people are looking at this trip as a chance to get the Bulls' road record out of the toilet.  It's terrible - especially for a "contender." This team needs to prove to all of us, and perhaps themselves, that they can win in unfriendly environments.  

This team has proven they're a force at the United Center, but they've been very vulnerable on the road.  And (cue the cliché) we all know that to be a great team they've got to win on the road.  Just take it one game at a time and give it 110%, right? :)  That's why I think this trip is more crucial than just winning the home games they're supposed to win.  

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Feb 7, 2007 11:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

three guard rotation
equals an excuse to lose, at least to me.  Skiles has it in his head that playing guys who play hard is better than playing guys who don't.  Unfortunately, when you're giving 3 inches and 20 lbs. you have to play hard just to be even.  Skiles needs to start matching up and playing the matchups that benefit the Bulls, otherwise he's never going to get this team to the next level.

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 9:01 AM CST   0 recs

Deng at 4
Although I also share concern over the three guard lineup, particularly in late game situations, it will be interesting to see how Deng does defensively in extended minutes at the 4.  (Am I reading this right? the main lineup will be duhon, hinrich, gordon, deng, wallace?).  My hope is that he will make a trade for Gasol seem superfluous.  

It also seems consistent with the "new" NBA that is more about ball movement and perimeter play than a traditional inside-out offense.  And, I won't miss the stiff post moves of P.J.

by GWKD on Feb 7, 2007 10:33 AM CST   0 recs

I'm confused
I thought they needed an INSIDE PRESENCE!!!

I still think it sucks. Why make Deng move positions? Especially so you can get Duhon in the lineup?!

Am I the only one who likes PJ?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 10:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Skiles
can't get away from his love for that 3 guard rotation. That's what really scares me. It's supposed to be a "Big mans game". I think If the Bulls were to make a move for Gasol, he would still somehow find a way to keep Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon in the same line up with him. haha

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I share your thoughts
I've seen Duhon screw up enough games late to agree with you.  I'd just be interested to see what that lineup looks like for extended minutes, for good or ill.  There's still some room for experimenting (I think) before the deadline so the Bulls don't have to blow up the team for Gasol.  

I liked P.J. a lot against Dallas, and his general defensive game, but I feel that his game against the Clippers is more indicative of the offensive post up player he is.  I'm still cringing at his late game post up, dribble dribble dribble, turnaroud blocked by Brand that led to a 10 point swing.  I feel is jumper is reliable, his post moves are not, but I'd be happy if I was wrong.

by GWKD on Feb 7, 2007 10:45 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Deng move positions
Its time Deng starts playing more four.  He is pretty big...about 6 10 and 230. Why should he have trouble guarding the opposing teams pf?  He struggles against quicker sf on defense anyways.  

With Nocioni out.  Who is a reliable 4 down the stretch? PJ? NOT.

Thomas and Wallace make a horrible offensive combination so I wouldnt want to see them out there togetehr.  Malik Allen?  mediocre.  They should test Khryapa out there and make Sweetney run lap;s more so he can play down the stretch.  Id love to see sweetney at the end of the game but probably wont happen.

by Sambossanova on Feb 7, 2007 10:55 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No...
...you're not the only one who likes PJ. The moves may be stiff, but with extended minutes you're always getting low double-digit points and high single digit boards.

It's great to see Khryrapa getting some minutes. To me, he was the biggest surprise in preseason. He played 15 minutes or so in the opener, looked good and then sat for a month.  We've got a lot of athletic 6'8 to 6'9 players that we view as a problem in creating a "log-jam". Why are they never used as a positive to create match-up problems? With the exception of Thomas, they all can shoot, handle the ball and rebound. I'm getting tired of watching Hinrich/Duhon/Gordon using an arm-bar in the post at the end of games.  

by EdNealy on Feb 7, 2007 10:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

PJ is done
He is more done than AD was two years ago.  An occasional good game, but he is no answer as a starter or crunch time player.  He should be playing backup minutes at the 5 and occasionally the 4.

I don't have a problem putting Deng at the 4 on occasion to see how he fares.  He is tall and lanky and can score.  If we're going with a 3 guard lineup, why aren't we playing more Hinrich, Gordon, Sefolosha?  Thabo is long enough to play the 3.  At least that lineup gives us 3 legit scoring options and solid defense (even if still a bit undersized).

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Feb 7, 2007 11:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I agree that
I would rather see Thabo in the lineup over Duhon.

I don't hate PJ I just want him to go to the basket with authority. Last game he had two baksets he missed by inches because he used only one hand and if he had used both hands the ball would have gone in. That just irritates me.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 7, 2007 11:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Pj is Done?
That is just an complete overstatement.  If it wasnt for PJ, we would have lost to Dallas at home, and you cannot put a value on what he does on D.  Take it easy there big guy.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

thabo v duhon
as we all know duhon cant shoot the three very well but he can shoot it beetter than thabo from what i have seen or at least thats my gut feeling.  Plus lets not forget duhons TERRIFIC Assist to turnover ratio...not.  

At least ben gordon is playing down the stretch now a days no matter what...Im glad the hwole sixth man superstition bs is over and he is getting more respect from skiles.

by Sambossanova on Feb 7, 2007 12:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think the REAL problem is the COACH
He drove Eddy, and Jamal to a lesser extent out of town, wont play Tyrus even with what he brings on D, and will be responsible for the eventual demise of this Bulls team.  Eddy and Jamal are having good seasons because they like their coach.  Ive talked to Eddy on a personal basis, and he admitted to me that he'd rather not play for Skiles if he had a choice.  I'm also convinced that Eddy would have taken that heart test IF he played for someone he was comfortable with, and not someone that puts him down.  Skiles NEEDS TO STEP DOWN, and let PAX take over as head coach.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:04 PM CST   0 recs

Pax dealt Eddy, not Skiles
what the hell, they were going to resign Eddy if not for the Heart incident. That was Pax's call.

And...Jamal Crawford?!?!?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 12:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I was making the point that
Eddy would have been more willing to take that test IF he was in a comfortable situation, and got along with his coach. I think Eddy liked Pax, but not Skiles. And say what you want but Jamal has BIG GAMES at times.  Can Ben score 52? That remains to be seen.  Dont forget Jamal dropped 50 in Toronto in his 2nd full season.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

counterpoint:
Crawford sucked as a Bull, and still sucks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 12:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

much agreed!
He is pretty wack with that mini crossover pull up jumper he does EVERY time.

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 12:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Guys that Score big
Have GO TO MOVES.  Thats his.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:48 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Guys that score big
have "various" go to moves. This his only one.

So if a guy gets 2 out of the blue 50 point games in his career, he's a big scorer? I never thought of him as a huge scoring threat. I just know when he plays the Bulls, he usually gives them fits.

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 1:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

What's with
ALL the caps ALL the time?
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 1:34 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jamal will
Shoot 42% from the field, 38% from three, and most importantly PLAYS WELL WITH EDDY.  I know your a hater Matt but give the man some credit.  Not just ANYONE can Score 50 in the NBA.  I see you dont want to touch that Eddy comment huh?

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yes he was
Until the injury bug got the best of him.  If he would have retired like Al Houston did when he had that serious injury, he would get the respect he deserves.  T Delk is good.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 1:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

am i missing something here?
In Tony Delk's best year, he averaged 12.3 points per game. Was a horrible rebound and assist man as well. His defense was really awful too. if you wanna compare Crawford with Delk, It will prove my point...not yours.

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 2:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

His numbers are 1 thing
But he really was a good player.  Why would one of the best teams in the league (Detroit) pick him up otherwise?

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

your arguements are hilarious
"But he really was a good player.  Why would one of the best teams in the league (Detroit) pick him up otherwise?"

Does that mean everyone on that 1996 Bulls team was a good player? Where is Jack Haley to back you up when you need him?

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 2:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Listen
Eddy is a good player, prob the best Back-to-the-Basket Center in the league now... BUT, he would not have this type of season if Isiah Thomas wasn't forced to run the Offence thru him. He made a big trade to get him and HAS to prove Eddie was worth it. I like Eddie and there's nothing wrong with him getting his props. He was just lazy while in Chicago and plays NO DEFENSE STILL. How is a guy so big averaging A CAREER HIGH 7 Rebounds?
-
As for Crawford, he's as streaky as anyone could ever be... So he put up 52 points in one night, ok, what happened a couple of games after that? 6points. Stop bringing up the 50point games because they don't happen often enough to be a factor. Kincks are not winning. Oh that 52pt game on Miami who has NO perimeter def. Nice game... and that's it.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 1:28 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ah but the knicks are winning
I do see your point about Zeek needing to justify the trade, But the point I'm making is that Eddy did not want to play for Skiles, and that was the reason he did not live up to his potential here.  Do you remeber when Cartwright was the coach, and everyone was saying, even then his rookie season that he was the next Diesel?  He regressed because of the coaching change. Dont be suprised if the Knicks gulp, end up in the playoffs this year. Keep in mind they are only 6 games under .500 http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html  They are playing much better since they began starting big James with Eddy, and that is a formidable combo. against any team out east.

As for Crawford, it's agreed that he's streaky, but who do we have that is capable of that sort of streak?  Ben Gordon maybe, but thats it.  If you would have argued that he's a defensive liability, than that's a valid argument.  But last time I checked so is Ben G.

I'm just a little bitter when I see our guys on the KNICKS of all teams.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 1:53 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ok
I didn't bring up his liability on D because that's a given.
Who can go on "Streaks" on the Bulls? Well, at the begining of the season I'd say Gordon, but he's become more consistent than streaky, and I'd rather have that.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 2:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Lets remeber this comment
when Ben goes through another one of his lows, and Skiles begins to bring him off of the bench once again.  Which proves my point even more.  GET RID OF SKILES!!!!!!!!

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

and sign or trade for
Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Tony Delk, and Jamal Crawford. I imagine Stacey Augmon could play small forward on that squad.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 7, 2007 2:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

overstatement of the millenium
"big James with Eddy, and that is a formidable combo. against any team out east."

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 7, 2007 2:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think
He was trying to be comical... Mission Accomplished.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 2:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

no, he wasn't

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 7, 2007 2:21 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I know Jax Pax,
I was being sarcastic....

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 2:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

YESSIR
Two 7 foot guys over 280lbs.  Who can match up with that besides Miami?  How soon we forget about the playoffs he had with the sonics. I'll take 13 and 7 from a big that shoots 75% from the line!  They want him to block shots, rebound, and play D like Tyson did for Eddy.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Then why
don't you switch teams and post on their blogs?
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 7, 2007 2:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I am
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 7, 2007 2:26 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yes!
Seems like you're a Knick at heart! Go on... Tell Eddie he's missed...Oh wait, he isn't.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 2:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Did it ever occur to you that
Maybe DRange is interested in the Knicks becuase we have an important draft pick from them this year in a very deep draft????
I guess 2 heads are not necessarily better than 1

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Are you seriously
talking in the 3rd person?... Ok Shaq... What does their pick have to do with you praising them?. Nothing.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 3:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

OMG
DRange is a bizarro Kevin!

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 3:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Too bad Jerom James
is an out of shape stiff with no skills to speak of, and Eddy's production stops at scoring. It's a bad matchup for the Knicks; getting carved up in the paint and crawling up and down the floor doesn't do them any good.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 7, 2007 2:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It hasnt done them
any bad either.  James was hurt, and is starting to get back into shape.  

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

You're right...
Round is a shape...

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 2:28 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

NY Daily News
says James started the last two games because they are showcasing him for a trade...

link

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 4:12 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

not entirely
out of the realm of possibility.  Though they have played well together when not in foul trouble.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 4:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

DannyRange
Think about where the Bulls are in terms of rebuilding. Then think about where the Knicks are in rebuilding. Think about how much money they're giving to those "former Bulls". The Knicks are the complete opposite of the Bulls in terms of rebuilding.

They have taken away our scraps who don't care much about defense and gave us assets that everyone else in the league are drooling over. I agree with the fact that the Bulls can certainly use an inside presence like Eddy but not on the defensive end. And  to be honest, Eddy was still developing when he was with the Bulls and he actually still is. That is why Pax did want to sign him. They knew what he was capable of. I don't think he was worth a max deal though and still don't.

There is nothing wrong for rooting for ex Bulls players but to say it's bitter to watch Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford play the way they play on a pretty bad team for all the money they're making...well, it just don't sound right.

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 2:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Point taken
And I commend Pax for the job he has done. I'm just saying those guys were not motivated because of the head coach. That coupled with the fact that they were both very young, will produce that perception of lazy,non-defensive players. The Knicks are almost always paying that luxury tax for exceeding the salary cap anyway.  That sort of venue can afford it.

The main reason I'm talkin Knicks is becuase their season directly effects our future as well.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:42 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

well
as sad as it is for the Knicks, I dont think they're going to enjoy that "coach they love to play for" that much longer.

Isiah Thomas shouldn't be there that much longer.

by Option27 on Feb 7, 2007 2:49 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

knicks
have low expectations.  I live in ny and as much as everyone hates him and dolan, if the knicks win 35 games it might be enough for isiah to keep his job.  

If it weren't for David Lee and a few others stepping up, they would be pretty awful.

by Sambossanova on Feb 7, 2007 4:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah its a real shame
They are sooo close to being just god-awful.  But you throw David Lee in there, the occasional good games from Curry and Crawford (and even Starbury once in a while) and you have a decidedly mediocre, but not horrible enough, bunch.
B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Feb 8, 2007 4:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

where is colossus?
this guys claims to have the inside dope from Eddy Curry?  Are you the Bulls beat writer for the Daily Herald or something?

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 12:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hmmmm?
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 12:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I do know Eddy
And PJ for that matter.  These guys are good guys.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

pax won't coach
Ever.

He's not interested.

by KT on Feb 7, 2007 1:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

tough to keep track of everyone's sources
so you're on speaking terms with Paxson then?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 1:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

nope
But he's said in interviews that he doesn't have the personality for coaching.  

And he's had the chances to do it.

by KT on Feb 7, 2007 2:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

He already has
Wasn't he an assistant coach on one of the championship teams?

by Big D on Feb 7, 2007 1:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

95-96
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 1:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

the one point no one's touched?
You talk to eddy?  care to elaboarate, kevin 2

by milesgmsu on Feb 7, 2007 2:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I used to work in Highland Park
We got a lot of athletes in

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 2:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Eddie & Jamal
Oh ya Eddie & Jamal are playing great.  That's why their team is 6 games under 500. There's a reason why Crawford has never played on an NBA team with a winning record. He can't play defense for more than 10 seconds, has no concept of time and situation and has perhaps the worst shot selection in the NBA. I don't have the figures with me but when I last looked he had taken something like the 8th most 3pt shots in the league and was shooting 29%.

Curry is improved over what he was with the Bulls and is certainly putting up better numbers but much of the better numbers is because he plays more minutes.  He still hurts you almost as much on defense as he helps on offense, and he still has too many turnovers.  The Knicks have taken Frye out of the starting lineup because with him and Curry on the floor they have no interior presence.

The Knicks are playing better of late because of David Lee and Marbury's excellent play of late. That and the fact they've finally figured out that Nate Robinson sucks.

Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Feb 8, 2007 3:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Nice Post
I agree with everything you said. I forgot to bring up Eddie's TOs as they were killing my Fantasy team and is why I traded him. The knicks still suck monkey Balls.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 4:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i understand Matt
about Griffs turnovers.  But when he is put into the game good things usually happen on the defensive end of the court.  Griff is not 100% healthy, but he will be ready by the playoffs, and will help us.

by DannyRange on Feb 7, 2007 12:13 PM CST   0 recs

Since Du played well Monday night
that means he'll suck the next three or four games.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 12:37 PM CST   0 recs

or five or
six or seven.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 7, 2007 12:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs