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Sam Smith provides insight into Thomas' lack of minutes

82486_160_tiny by bullshooter on

Matt: I'll just piggy-back this diary since it's up and already has the discussion going. Fanhouse has a quality post on this as well.

Denver's real good, but shouldn't be 20+ points better, and there's no doubting this was yet another shit effort by the Bulls, made worse by the fact that one of the players who had been doing decent, Ben Gordon, also turned in an awful performance.

But this Tyrus thing is just getting silly. Again, why root for a team that starts Adrian Griffin? Tyrus had a terrible game (although I thought the first foul was a bad call, so after getting an another one soonafter he was yanked regardless of what he did), but what Skiles doesn't seem to get is that even if Tyrus isn't performing to capabilities by sprinting and focusing all the time (or whatever), he still helps the team win.

Sam Smith calls Tyrus a fan favorite in the sense that we're all rubes who like shiny dunks and blocks. I'd say that fans are more fooled by the flopping and fist-pumpery of Nocioni, who was completely abysmal on defense last night.

Just figure this: The Nuggets had Carmelo Anthony and Kenyon Martin, the Bulls had Adrian Griffin and Andres Nocioni. Pax has claimed wanting to make this team more athletic, maybe it'll take a coaching change to get our athletes on the court.

Diary: Sam Smith has his latest tantalizing glimpse into what Skiles is thinking.  Apparently, Tyrus isn't being athletic enough.  Interesting that the reason he isn't playing is that he isn't running the floor correctly.  Yet another guy settling for jumpshots?  Have a field day with this one, guys.

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Wow did not Noah say that like 6 games ago?
"I don't know what it is," said an unusually subdued Gordon afterward. "There's no continuity out there. It's not just me. Everyone. Collectively we have to figure it out and address it."

I think this is worse than the Tim Floyd years just because with this team you know they are one of the best teams in the leauge. They should be a top 5 team but they have become the clown's of the association.

Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:28 AM CST   0 recs

2 problems with that
Noah said it, and it was 6 games ago

In other words, it was the wrong person saying it and at the wrong time.

Case closed.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 21, 2007 8:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Come on man.
It's the same old shit. The fact that he said it a long time ago is what concerns me. Now all of the sudden BG relizes whats going on? Back then all he was saying was we have to igure it out. That doesn't bother you? That they can't figure out how to play basketball or what helpside is and they have been to the playoffs the past 3 years?
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 10:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

saying it
after 3 or 4 games was premature...there was no need to panic at that stage...it didn't need to be said.

NOW there does look like there may be some legit reasons to panic...THAT'S why BG is saying it now...get it?

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 21, 2007 11:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Amazing
I may almost, just a little, agree with joejoe on something.

But I think a lot of people have noticed the Bulls need to "figure things out" - I wouldn't exactly label either Gordon or Noah as sharp-eyed Socratics just for producing such a comment.

by jpx7 on Nov 22, 2007 7:28 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Just because
with this team you know they are one of the best teams in the leauge

Why do you think this?

by withmalice on Nov 21, 2007 8:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

A new season's haiku
Tyrus should run the floor.
AND not playing him is stupid.
This season just sucks ass.
My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 21, 2007 12:39 AM CST   0 recs

Yeah it does.
I mean can't they figure this shit out? This city deserves better than this. Fans sellout their seats and we gotta go through all this crap over again? I really thought it was starting to feel like the good old days even when they lost to NJ I thought their was this confidence in them that they were a team not to be fucked with. I it's just unreall and there is no answer to it. It's always we gotta figure it out. What? Figure what out? How hard is it to play team basketball? There has to be something more to it. As a fan I feel cheated personally. It's really sad that nobody on this team has any balls.
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Haikus
are 5-7-5, not 6-8-6 :-P

by Jaina on Nov 21, 2007 10:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I do like the reference to "season"
which, as I recall, is integral to the haiku form.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 1:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Haiku
Basho you are not.
"Haiku" is plural for "haiku."
Now run, Tyrus, run!
"It is not he same to talk of bulls as to be in the bullring." ~Spanish Proverb"

by VivaLosToros on Nov 21, 2007 1:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Actually . . .
5-7-5 is simply the most traditional haiku meter.  Its not a requirement.  A seasonal reference is also a traditional characteristic.

The haiku was something I broke out during last year's playoffs.  I only titled my comment a haiku after reading my first three lines and noticing that they happened to be 6-8-6 with a seasonal reference.  So call it an "accidental haiku".

Although, now that I think about it, I will only comment in haiku until the Bulls win their next game.

My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 21, 2007 1:52 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The cold season
On a haiku strike
leaves fall but jumpshots do not
What's first:  win or snow?
My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 21, 2007 1:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't know
where you are but it's snowing here today in Iowa.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 21, 2007 2:00 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I long for the days when
coaches started the best 5 players available to them.  

It's sad, annoying, and frustrating to see Tyrus only get 2 more minutes than Adrian Griffin.  I also don't know if I like the idea of Gardner getting 27 minutes.  To be fair though, I didn't watch the game so maybe Gardner looked great out there.  

by upther on Nov 21, 2007 6:21 AM CST   0 recs

Gardner did play pretty well
nobody played great D, but Gardner hit a bunch of three's, and starters got pulled at the end of the third.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 21, 2007 8:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah,
I'm not as frustrated by Gardners playing time as I am by Griffins.  Gardner atleast offers some promise for the future, the same can't be said about Griffin.  

by upther on Nov 21, 2007 9:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I like Gardner.
He's playing like a pro.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 10:27 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Gardener
He wasn't spectacular, but he was confident.  He wasn't hesitating to shoot the basketball.  I'd say two of his shots were ill advised, but the rest were in rhythm or uncontested.  He also put in a pretty decent defensive performance, although, he did get a rather rude introduction to how AI gets calls in the NBA.

AI actually was called for traveling last night.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 9:11 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't know if Skiles realizes this . . .
But he just shit all over himself as a coach.  He just admitted "I can't get a player to play hard for me."  That only happens to be the most important job of a coach.

by Big D on Nov 21, 2007 7:53 AM CST   0 recs

I think...
I think it's probably more on the individual player when he has an entire team whose rep and identity is built on playing hard.

by theundergroundman on Nov 21, 2007 8:45 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

How hard have they played the last few games?
If Tyrus isn't playing hard, he certainly doesn't look like he's the only one.  At least I hope so, because if the Bulls are playing hard and still getting blown out so often, then they must be one of the worst teams in the league.

by Big D on Nov 21, 2007 9:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's not just Tyrus.
There were plenty of other players that didn't play hard, but they have all been shipped out. This team has only drafted or signed players who were already uber-determined, above-their-potential Scrappy McGogetums. Tyson seems to be the only player who is now "playing hard." (note: all previous Bulls who were "unmotivatable" may simply never be able to be reached.)

Is there a reason this team needs to overspend for "calming influences" and "leadership presence"? Is it because they don't get those things from the coach?

Anyway, yes, it's obviously on the player. But if the only players a coach can motivate are those with a great internal work ethic, what's the point of the coach?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Nov 21, 2007 9:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

My apologies--I posted this earlier to the wrong
thread.

I just reread Sam's game article, and he took out a nasty reference to Thomas that was in the article last night when it first appeared after the game.

One thing that bothers me about this is that Skiles gave Smith a lay-up with his comment about the particularly amateurish type of turnovers the Bulls committed in the game, an obvious reference to Hinrich dribbling the ball off his heel while trying to go behind his back, and Sam ignored it.

Instead, he wrote this long piece about Thomas, the clear implication that Thomas is the Bulls big problem.  To my mind, a fifth year player playing like a sixth grade girl (I can say this from personal, parental experience, no disrespect meant toward sixth grade girls) is a much bigger problem than a second-year bench player not yet finding his game.  

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 9:08 AM CST   0 recs

T2
T2's problems hustling back are also the result of awful shooting from the team.  Skiles should have things to say about this team coming down in transition and just launching 18 foot and away jump shots.  Kirk, BG, Du, Thabo, Noc, and Gardener did this a lot last night.  I'll estimate there were about 10 shots at the basket on transition WITH NO RED SHIRTS IN THE PAINT.

When those shots are missed, T2's lack of hustle is compounded and Skiles craps all over him.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 9:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Skiles mentioned something about this
He said they were trying to get early shots.  That goes along with Tyrus not getting down the court fast enough.  I guess when Tyrus isn't running the break, he walks up the court.  I haven't honestly watched for it.  All you ever see are the highlights of him running for the dunk.  

More than anything, I think Skiles comments are coming out of frustration.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 21, 2007 9:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus jogs
You often see him jogging back down court with his head back, usually behind the other 4 players.  He is always trailing the break and hoping to slip inside for an alley-oop.  When the timing is right, it can lead to spectacular scores.  But that's only a few times a game at most.  You almost never see Tyrus run the floor out ahead of the ball to lead the break.

And when he trails and doesn't get an oop, he is out of position to rebound anytime the Bulls take an early shot.

My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 21, 2007 10:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

This team has gone from
being interesting due to its play-off potential, to being interesting like a train wreck.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 9:27 AM CST   0 recs

I see a Tyson Chandler scenario all over again
I really think Tyrus will probably play inconsistent for Skiles as long as they're together.  Players that young and with that kinda potential don't mend well with Skiles coaching style.

I really don't wanna see him traded to another team and then bash Skiles for not being fair to him and then have an unbelievable year and then people hate on the Bulls for giving up on him too early.

and then I hate my life even more

by Option27 on Nov 21, 2007 10:09 AM CST   0 recs

Skiles and Marion
Skiles did OK with Shawn Marion.  Marion is exactly the same kind of player.  Little to no shooting with extreme athleticism for rebounds, dunks, and blocks.

Marion is always moving.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 11:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Skiles did okay with Marion?
Marion hated his gut and with the help of Kidd they got him fired from Phx.  I wouldn't call that doing well with Marion.  Marion put up numbers with Skiles, but he never bought into Skiles.  No one in Phx did.

by danger mouse on Nov 21, 2007 11:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I've been suffering in silence BUT
I think it's entirely possible that the next 6 games could determine Skiles future as coach.
If the Bulls can't beat the Knicks, Hawks, and Bobcats then the time has come to shake up this team and changing coaches would be the place to start. Anything less than 4-2 would be a disgrace and realistically 5-1 should be expected.
I've always backed Skiles in the past, but his substitution patterns just don't make any sense lately.
Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Nov 21, 2007 10:17 AM CST   0 recs

Speaking of Coaching Changes
If you watch the Knicks, it's hard not to believe that Thomas is trying to get fired.  I think he knows he can't win with the team and Dolan will have to get rid of him at the end of the season. He's got guaranteed money for the next 3 years, so why put up with the headaches of coaching.
Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Nov 21, 2007 10:24 AM CST   0 recs

Does that scenario have a familiar ring
to New York fans, or what?  It's Larry Brown all over again.  And we think we have it bad here in Chicago.  Of course, saying that, if we don't beat the Knicks Saturday it will feel like armageddon here.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 10:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I watched the Knicks-Warriors last night
I live in NY and my buddy is a Warriors fan, so we checked it out.  We were also excited to see Isiah and Marbury's receptions at the Garden.

The crowd booed Marbury every time he touched the ball for the first 5 minutes or so.  Even the MSG announcers commented on how "unusual" it was for a home crowd to boo its own player that way.  Then Marbury made a sweet inside dish to Curry for a dunk and the boos stopped.  But throughout there were intermittant "Fire Isiah" chants.  Honestly, it is amazing to me how Isiah is able to remain so outwardly unflappable in the face of such vitriol being directed at him from everywhere.  Its like he's a robot.  And when you listen to his press interviews, its really amazing.  He just stands their at the ready with some fresh excuse and makes it sound like they are just around the corner from being a playoff team.

That team is in total disarray.  However, they do have two low post scorers and some speedy guards.  Both the Knicks and the Bulls looked awful last night, but having watched both games, it would not surprise me in the least if the Knicks won on Saturday.  In fact, it would not surprise me if the game was a blow out.  I can't believe I'm writing that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens.  I wonder if Skiles really is on as thin of ice as you suggest.  This whole season has just been so unbelievably bizarre.  I've never ever seen a good team bring back the exact same players and have them crash so badly (even Miami wasn't this bad after their title, and they at least had obvious causes -- age, complacency, injuries -- for their drop-off).  Its like a Twilight Zone episode.

My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 21, 2007 11:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Preverbal you are 100% correct.
I also watched the Knick - Warrior game.  I thoroughly enjoyed the boos and "fire Isiah" chants. There is only one other team as bad as the Knicks and it is the Bulls.  I saw some of the Cav - Bucks and Toronto - dallas game.  All those teams, even when losing, have more energy, have more movement without the ball and seem more organized then the Bulls.  I despise the Knicks, but the way we are playing, it would not shock me if we lose and lose big Saturday.  The way we are playing it would surprise me if we won.  This is the worst basketball a Bulls team has played in years.  Something is terribly wrong and I do not have confidence that Skiles knows what to do and I am waiting to hear something from Paxson.  I am at a loss to understand this mess.

by chgobr on Nov 21, 2007 12:00 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

preverbal
again your are correct.  This is a good analogy.  Thomas's & Marbury's total career foundation has been based on arrogancy. Therefore this explains their public disposition.  "Bizarre"

Some may not want to admit, but Scottie has similiar attributes.  I don't mean the "Scottie" that played with Jordan for the Bulls.

Yet, I believe this game can go either way, and actually the Bulls might win.  I believe the players really don't have much reason to be motivated against one another at this point, probably more compassion towards each other.  Maybe the GM's and coaches have personal motivation towards one another.

How about Thomas and Mark Aguirre play 2-on-2 against Paxson and Skiles?  Now I think that would be a better game.

by exult463 on Nov 21, 2007 4:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Did you hear the MSG crowd?
Whats up with Chicago and New York?
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 10:29 AM CST   0 recs

I just don't
even know what to think any more. I heard Skiles say one time that he stays out of the locker room most of the time (I think he meant during practices). I wonder if there are some conflicts in the locker room that he doesn't know about. Maybe those conflicts were discussed in the private team meeting and if they were it obviously didn't change things. I'm sure I'm just grasping for answers here.

Skiles said he did sit down and talked with each player privately during all the trade talks and I think he should have but I wonder if he did all the talking or if he listened to what they had to say? I wonder what the players feelings are regarding Skiles? Like I said I'm just grasping.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 21, 2007 10:47 AM CST   0 recs

sue..something to think about
do you remember all of the public ripping Larry Brown would do with the media against his players. Well, if you remember in NY, some of the NY players with less discretion as a Kirk or Ben or Deng fought back against the coach with the media.  It was a complete mess.

Well, in Chicago, that type of behavior is not tolerated from the players.  Which is a good thing, Paxson stresses.

But still, a coach should be a protector and provide a covering for his players, especially for players who are basically good citizens.
They may not be as talented as the next player, but effort and player development should be encouraged more the public ridicule and publically blaming the players more than oneself in the post game interviews.

While the NY players, Tyson Chandler evenually and others expressed dissatisfaction openly against their previous coaches, still the current Bulls team who are criticised frequently still witness the same internal feelings toward the critic coach.  Unless the criticism is truely warranted, all the other players feel such a player is a jerk, and that player is such a stubborn and arrogant individual that he needs public humilations to bring him back to earth

"I don't think they are head over heads in love with their coach, but yet too professional with an element of fear to express otherwise"

If Skiles was placed on a bubble status by Paxson, I don't think you would hear too much sincere support coming from the current roster to keep him?  Maybe some kind words, but nothing concrete.

by exult463 on Nov 21, 2007 4:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think they care anymore.
Even my gf said it and she doesn't really like bsketball. She likes Tom Bradey
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 10:51 AM CST   0 recs

Wow! Lucky guy!
Is your girlfriend, Brigette Moynihan...or Giselle Bundchen?  Either way, you're a big winner!
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 11:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Skiles protecting his job?
So the reason the Bulls are playing this bad is because Tyrus doesn't sprint the floor?  Maybe if he wasn't concerned about being benched and then pulled after 40 seconds he could play with some more freedom and get more involved in the game.

Skiles blaming Tyrus smacks of desperation to me.  Why call out a second-year guy to Tyrus-hater Sam Smith?  What good does it do?  Does he think the fans will support the idea of Griffin getting serious minutes?

It seems to me like Skiles is still trying to show that he is not the problem, and that the players will come around to his way and everything will be OK.  But his way is not working, and he seems to be getting tuned out.  Why else go to the Trib?  

Has he lost the team?

by nateroth on Nov 21, 2007 10:52 AM CST   0 recs

I would love to see an empty United Center
when the come back to Chicago. From Kansas 6'1 Kirk Hiiiiinrich.
Crickets.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 11:05 AM CST   0 recs

This Article is BS
Tyrus not sprinting is no reason to start Griffin over Joe Smith or Noah.  Tyrus isn't the reason this team is 2-8.  When Tyrus plays significant minutes, he produces.   When Griffin plays, he is a black hole - no offense, no defense - just time on the court.  

Does Tyrus need to get out the break more, probably.  But when he has gotten minutes, he has been the Bulls best player.  Tyrus doesn't trust Skiles.  He doesn't trust him to play him when he plays well, so he doesn't play hard because he is getting his minutes yanked.  I'm not saying Tyrus is right, but I think that is what is going on. Tyrus doesn't play hard?  I remember hearing the same things about Chandler. Its funny how hard Chandler started playing when he started playing for Byron Scott.  All of the sudden, Tyson was the hardest working guy in practice.  I'm sorry, but Skiles isn't going to convince me TT is Stromile Swift - which is he obviously trying to do.

Was Tyrus failure to get out on the break the reason Skiles pulled him in the 4th quarter of the Suns game and thereby lost that game?  When Tyrus was playing phenomenally against Amare.  Because he won't run is why Tyrus only played him garbage time in the Lakers lost?  this is personal between Ty and Skiles.  If I had to choose one... goodbye Skiles.  We already made this mistake w/ Chandler.  Not everyone responds to be constantly insulted.  Being constantly trashed.  And that is Skiles only method of "teaching".  Skiles needs to be fired.  The list of players who hated Skiles - Kidd, Marion, Horry - guys who are winners, tells me that Skiles can't get the most out of his talent.    Paxson needs to pull the trigger, because the Bulls will never go to the next level w/ Skiles.

by danger mouse on Nov 21, 2007 11:10 AM CST   0 recs

You hit it exactly.
Skiles counted on Sam Smith's vendetta against Thomas, to deflect criticism from where it really should be directed--at Skiles himself.  This is why I find Sam's column so loathsome.  He is complicit in Skiles' subterfuge, knowingly or unknowingly, it doesn't matter.  Sam should know better than to allow himself to be played as Skiles' dupe.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 11:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

anyone?
Does anyone have the Smith column that appeared on the Trib site before it was edited to remove the most damaging indictment of Tyrus?

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 12:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

ack
I was looking forward to the promised "Fire Skiles, let Pax sort 'em out" post.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 11:52 AM CST   0 recs

isn't that what I said?
Yeah I had high hopes for getting up early and writing a more angry post. Just didn't have the energy (or the spacing).

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 21, 2007 11:55 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

it's all about accountability
A buzz word Skiles has avoided this season.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 11:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

...which actually surprises me a lttle bit.
Normal advertising/propaganda theory generally would have Skiles screaming the loudest about those qualities whose lack he fears most in himself.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

huh?
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 12:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

OK. I'll credit
a long ago interview with Kurt Vonnegut as my source for the concept.  So take it in that spirit.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Pseudointellectualism noted
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 12:17 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

more like regular old satire
or even cynicism.  You're probably more familiar with them in their more common guise of sarcasm.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 1:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Replace
"common" with "banal" and you've got it EXACTLY right.

by ChrisRobin on Nov 22, 2007 11:48 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

for all I care, a Pax Puppet
who would at least let Pax know who is worth keeping. Right now we know a lot about Joe Smith and Adrian Griffin. Oh, and Noc. But Pax done already gave him money.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 21, 2007 12:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

SVG
Rick Carlisle
Pete Myers
Ron Adams
Doug Collins
Darkhorse Reinsdorf Pal

In semi-particular order.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 12:16 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ehhhhhhh
I don't know. Maaaayyyybe Doug Collins but his teams always suck ass. I don't know this is soooooo bad! I just know I'm tired of Skiles and Hinrich.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

maybe
Rick Carlisle but..... who knows. I was thinking Mario Ellis.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

his Pistons teams weren't bad
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 12:26 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah but niether are Saunders.
Oh wait it's the same team......huh.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

sorry
neither
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 12:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Collins' Pistons
He coached Detroit for 2 years in the mid-90s. One was a 50+ win team.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 21, 2007 12:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Kirk
does look bad now, but something is not adding up?  I think much to the responsibility of Kirk's bad play he has to take responsibility.  But, still something is not adding up in regards to Player Development with this team.

Thabo looks to be a shell of himself from last year.  He seems afraid that he is going to make a mistake or something and be ridiculed?  Doesn't want to get the same Skiles treatment, like Ty2.

I would be careful in regards to moving players until a coaching situation is resolved.

by exult463 on Nov 21, 2007 5:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'd be happy
with Carlisle on the sidelines.  Hell, I'd be happy with a dead turtle on the sidelines.  Anything seems better than Skiles at the moment.  

by upther on Nov 21, 2007 1:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

carlisle
is every bit the authoritarian and disciplinarian that Skiles is.  
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 21, 2007 1:14 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

bullshooter
I seem to agree with you on carlisle.  They will need a coach who will take the pressure off of them, and let them play to their talents and abilities.

And if they give 110% and still are not good enough.  The fans will appreciate it anyway.

Noc might be an example of this rule.

by exult463 on Nov 21, 2007 5:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs