Death of the early season optimism (Open Game Thread # 7: Bulls at Phoenix Suns)
Judging by this whirlwind week of potential lineup changes culminating in Skiles' decision to bench Tyrus for El Flopso, I have to wonder what Paxson is thinking. Because his coach is basically saying this team's no good, and their 'core' is never going to get them anywhere.
Just look at these quotes alone, highlighted by calling his team 'fragile':
No, Noce definitely isn't tentative, he's a chucker. Which is perfect coming off the bench, but that's a lesser issue.
What gets me more is that Skiles has seen enough evidence in six games to undo any optimism we had that this season will be any improvement over last year. That Deng and Gordon would mature and improve, that Tyrus would become a force. It's all been shot down. Already.
Where Paxson has made all indications (by his non-movement and offering contract extensions) that this team would improve internally, Skiles has called it out as bullshit.
The real question is whether he's right: If Hinrich, Deng and Gordon really need a wild-eyed Argentine to get them going, then they're not that good. If Tyrus Thomas can't start on this squad now, he's not really being counted on to be a major contributor.
The only way I'm behind this change is if it's for Phoenix (because of their poor rebounding and high-paced offense), and only Phoenix. That's definitely not happening (if anything it'll be several months), so this message means more than the result of tonight's game (9:30PM, TNT). They could come out hitting shots, or Noc will be flailing away on a late close-out while Marion hits his fifth three, or both. I hate what this change means for the team in the big-picture, whether it's a 'spark' or not.
Blogging with the Enemy:
Bright Side of the Sun
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oh, forgot to mention
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 15, 2007 5:48 PM CST 0 recs
hmmm
You really think Noce starting is an indication of Skiles/Paxson not seeing eye to eye? That's a different take on this than I've seen anywhere.
I'd just wish they'd put Smith in instead of Wallace.
by KT on
Nov 15, 2007 6:28 PM CST
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From Paxson's statements
by Scotter on
Nov 15, 2007 6:40 PM CST
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Oh, I know they disagree
by KT on
Nov 15, 2007 7:03 PM CST
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tough to say Noc is a lightning rod
I mean more that Pax seems invested in Deng and Gordon, where we have Skiles telling us they're soft.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:06 PM CST
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what makes you think there is disagreement
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 7:28 PM CST
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It's not an explicit disagreement
Pax: These guys are our core, heres 100+ million in future contracts
Skiles: These guys are soft, they need Nocioni to spark them.
Would you call Deng and Gordon cornerstones if they fall on their face and need a lineup change in 6 games?
And it goes for the whole team, although maybe Pax really is trying to package these guys somewhere. Because a contending team doesn't have Andres Nocioni as their starting power forward, and therefore these aren't contenders. I would've liked more time before making that concession.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:49 PM CST
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The Bulls are soft?! YOU'RE soft!
Look, no one likes this, but if they're playing well and .500 by New Year's, who's to say they still don't play in the ECF?
Weren't you the one saying you'd say its early until it isn't? A lineup change in game 7 of the season does not make it game 8 or 9 or 40.
Let's all take a deep breath . . . in . . . hold . . . exhale . . . ahhhh.
We may well get crushed tonight, but its still early, my peeps, still very very early.
by preverbal on
Nov 15, 2007 9:00 PM CST
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Who goes first?
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 7:44 PM CST
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lets hope it doesn't come to that
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 8:06 PM CST
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??I don't "love it" when the Bulls lose.
by miserabull on
Nov 15, 2007 8:31 PM CST
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If our collective angst
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 8:34 PM CST
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wow
by miserabull on
Nov 15, 2007 8:35 PM CST
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Yeah
by bashuck on
Nov 15, 2007 9:08 PM CST
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I still think the Bulls can win the East
...i dont really know why I think that, but I do lol
by hongydraw on Nov 15, 2007 5:50 PM CST 0 recs
why so negative?
by hscs on Nov 15, 2007 5:51 PM CST 0 recs
The ridiculous thing...
by BenGo07 on Nov 15, 2007 6:00 PM CST 0 recs
Being on TNT worked well for the Bulls
Can't wait to hear what their biggest fan, Charles, has to say tonight.
by wjb1492 on Nov 15, 2007 6:01 PM CST 0 recs
Skiles
I just think he knows they're still young and can use a spark like Noc to get those guys going.
Also worth mentioning is that they're very comfortable when Noc is at the 4. They didn't play much together when Tyrus was starting at the 4 so maybe it's a case of being familiar with each other?
by Option27 on Nov 15, 2007 6:29 PM CST 0 recs
I'd rather have that unfamiliar feeling
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 6:34 PM CST
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Are you extrapolating those 55 wins
Exactly how many games do they need to look totally lost and confused in before it becomes necessary for something new to be tried?
1 more game and they will have played 1/10 of their schedule.
by rexisourqb on
Nov 15, 2007 6:54 PM CST
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i'd say 20-25 games
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:03 PM CST
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Since when
That's unfair to the man. He is still really young and will most likely be a major part of this team in the future unless he gets traded
by Option27 on
Nov 15, 2007 8:01 PM CST
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I didn't think it was that subtle
So not only will Tyrus not be starting, apparently Gordon and Deng aren't improving either, else they wouldn't need 'the spark'. That's my point: we've already seen what they can do as is...going into the season I wanted to see more.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 8:05 PM CST
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They don't necessarily get more wins by improving
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 9:01 PM CST
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This has been a painful week.
by chgobr on Nov 15, 2007 6:40 PM CST 0 recs
Why not bench deng for nocioni instead?
Maybe bringing him in off the bench where his role is clearly designated as a shooter would help him. Meanwhile the starting lineup gets somebody who won't disappear.
This won't happen, mostly because Luol was crowned as the untouchable in a Kobe trade, and everyone would look silly if he got benched shortly after.
by rexisourqb on Nov 15, 2007 6:44 PM CST 0 recs
people that matter didn't make him untouchable
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:05 PM CST
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Before we start jumping off of buildings
Does anybody else remember before the bulls went on their first run how much angst was built up by not being able to beat the Pistons for three years? There was even talk during the first championship season of blowing the team up if they couldn't get over the hump. Everybody needs to relax a little bit and let these guys play. If Tyrus continues to play and improve like he has shown he can now, there will be no keeping him off of the court.
by bullshooter on Nov 15, 2007 6:53 PM CST 0 recs
meh that's what we said last year
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:02 PM CST
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It was a lot worse
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 7:36 PM CST
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Speaking of jumping - - at least
by chgobr on
Nov 15, 2007 7:06 PM CST
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Please get
by sue369 on Nov 15, 2007 7:07 PM CST 0 recs
A win is guaranteed
by SlamDunk on Nov 15, 2007 7:28 PM CST 0 recs
Noce
by Mike Aparicio on Nov 15, 2007 7:45 PM CST 0 recs
heh
I admit I'm reaching a bit. But then I remember: Nocioni is starting for us. It's not a good feeling even after rationalization.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 15, 2007 7:50 PM CST
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A little bit off topic, but still interesting
by snley on Nov 15, 2007 8:30 PM CST 0 recs
Chuck wisdom at Spurs/Mavs halftime
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 15, 2007 8:35 PM CST 0 recs
I was hoping you were watching
by wjb1492 on
Nov 15, 2007 8:40 PM CST
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just hit me
Do you guys really stay up till the game is done over there?
by Option27 on Nov 15, 2007 9:06 PM CST 0 recs
I'm lucky this time
But usuall with the late games, I don't make it to the end. It makes the next day too rough.
by wjb1492 on
Nov 15, 2007 9:17 PM CST
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I've wondered this too.
by marionette on
Nov 15, 2007 9:26 PM CST
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Exactly
So convenient.
by Option27 on
Nov 15, 2007 9:28 PM CST
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We have the same
by marionette on
Nov 15, 2007 9:52 PM CST
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i hate being in the eastern time zone
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 9:53 PM CST
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There are
by alec on
Nov 15, 2007 9:32 PM CST
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I can't make it through the whole game
by KT on
Nov 15, 2007 9:41 PM CST
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Almost
by tyrus4prez on Nov 15, 2007 9:22 PM CST 0 recs
This
by gobulls1124 on Nov 15, 2007 9:34 PM CST 0 recs
the spurs and mavs need to hurry the f up
by hongydraw on Nov 15, 2007 9:40 PM CST 0 recs
Bulls will do well enough
by marionette on Nov 15, 2007 9:45 PM CST 0 recs
More Kobe rumors...
by Bluelou on Nov 15, 2007 9:47 PM CST 0 recs
For the Bulls to have a chance:
- they need to get the calls. All season they can't get a single call under the basket and unless that changes they won't beat many quality teams this year.
- they need to rough up Nash. They need to be physical with him and prevent him from running in circles and picking teams apart like he always does.
- they need to get inside Amare's head. He has all the talent in the world but he is a mental midget. If they actively attack him it may be enough to cause him to implode and beat his own team with his ego like he does every year against the Spurs.
by vlad001 on Nov 15, 2007 9:52 PM CST 0 recs
they need to make layups...
by bullshooter on
Nov 15, 2007 9:56 PM CST
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albert and collins?
by hscs on Nov 15, 2007 9:55 PM CST 0 recs
I don't remember
by hscs on
Nov 15, 2007 9:58 PM CST
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albert and collins
by Bluelou on
Nov 15, 2007 9:57 PM CST
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glad Nocioni was in
by hscs on Nov 15, 2007 9:59 PM CST 0 recs
i love Noc
by bullshooter on Nov 15, 2007 9:59 PM CST 0 recs
This is just wrong already
by Option27 on Nov 15, 2007 10:00 PM CST 0 recs
bwaha oh man
Spark.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 15, 2007 10:01 PM CST 0 recs
Maybe if the Bulls are lucky . . .
by Big D on Nov 15, 2007 10:01 PM CST 0 recs
before this mess gets outta hand
by Bluelou on Nov 15, 2007 10:02 PM CST 0 recs
Nocioni is the post up answer!
by hscs on Nov 15, 2007 10:04 PM CST 0 recs
Are the refs even in the building?
by bullshooter on Nov 15, 2007 10:06 PM CST 0 recs
other than
by Mike C on Nov 15, 2007 10:08 PM CST 0 recs
agreed
Might there be hope here?
by Bluelou on
Nov 15, 2007 10:10 PM CST
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Love the Noc hate...
by bullshooter on Nov 15, 2007 10:10 PM CST 0 recs
I actually like Noc
by bleargh on
Nov 15, 2007 10:12 PM CST
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